Influencer: Big Men Edition - Dhafir Jackson
Prepare to be inspired as we explore the world of theater via the brilliant author Dhafir Jackson's body-positive vision. Jackson's ground-breaking book, "Theater While Fat," examines the lives of nine extraordinary actors who defy social expectations and redefine what it means to be a "fat actor" in the entertainment business. This collection of interviews offers a distinctive viewpoint on the accomplishments, difficulties, and unbending spirit of those who refuse to be limited by stereotypes. The venues range from small community theaters to the expansive Broadway stages.
In this exclusive interview, we'll have the opportunity to learn more about Dhafir Jackson's own personal body positivity journey, his motivations behind writing this compelling book, and the valuable insights he gained from his conversations with these trailblazing actors. And that's not all! We'll also uncover some fascinating fun facts about Dhafir himself that will surely leave you eager to explore the pages of this captivating interview.
Click The Image To Check Out Theater While Fat Book On Amazon
During the height of COVID and the Black Lives Matter movement, I felt useless, honestly, because with my immune system and those I lived with, going out to protest with that and the genuine fear just wasn’t going to happen. I also noticed how theater wasn’t really doing much as well with speaking out and supporting their fellow members. So in a day and age where anyone can not only use, but amplify their voices, I thought about putting together a collection of interviews from actors of color with a range of experiences in the theater industry to express their experiences and opinions. Then use the royalties to donate to POC theater related causes or businesses. That was my first book, "Theater While Colored". While thinking of doing that project, though, other marginalized groups popped into my mind, and "Theater While Fat" was the one that constantly kept occupying my brain, so once I felt confident enough to try again, that was the group I decided to focus on.
The theme from "Theater While Fat" that I believe is most present is the act of perseverance and how it takes a lot of mental strength to get through life, especially in an industry like this where it is more than acceptable to cast one aside and devalue them because of the way they look.
I tried to look for actors that had a clear focus on the positive change of being more inclusive with bigger bodies in theater and who had been very open about their own personal experiences with being a "fat actor" navigating the industry. I felt that the passion they would have would read well in a book like this since I truly do not try to alter the style of a person's wording when editing. I also knew there would be a smaller number of people who would most likely say yes to participating, so I really tried to keep the focus on quality and not quantity.
When publishing "Theater While Fat", like my previous book, I did my research on all the people before asking if they would like to participate in this creative project with a sample of my previous work attached to the email. When it came to publishing the book, I went down the self-publishing route because it was the most affordable option for my budget at the time. And self-publishing means that I took on all the responsibilities of putting together this book. I created the cover, formatted the book with the design of the book matter in mind, and did all the revising. Then I had life-saving assistance from a good friend of mine, Mick Gloss, who helped with proofreading the final drafts of the book to fully complete this project.
The 9 Selected Actors
(To follow these amazing people click the image above)
The process honestly felt disappointingly longer than I wanted it to be, but it was also probably far more realistic than what I was used to. My first book, from the conception of the idea to the release date, took me only three months. So naturally, I used that previous time frame as the goal for this book as well, but many things prevented that from happening. I had a few people who committed to doing the book, who ended up leaving me on seen or completely ghosting me almost two months into the project while I was checking up on them and asking for updates. The majority were people who worked on Broadway too, which at that time made me feel very discouraged. Like my work wasn’t worthy or that it was a dumb idea to focus on. A lot of scheduling and conflicts made people put the project on the back burner, which added to me feeling even more discouraged. A cover artist as well as a proofreader ghosting me added so much more stress to the situation since money was involved.Basically, all that could go wrong did. When it reached December, a little over two months after my intended deadline, I decided to pause, breathe, and focus on achieving one thing at a time. That's when I made it my new goal to get the book done by my birthday as a gift to myself to not give up on myself. Though the release was a few days after my birthday, everything was actually finished and uploaded one minute before my birthday hit.
The two most frequent difficulties were having trouble with clothes and always being categorized into "type" roles that only fat actors could portray, despite the fact that most of the time the fat actor was the best choice for the lead role. Some felt confident leveraging this to their advantage, while others chose to look into other possibilities for success and fulfillment, but everyone was still left with a bad taste in their mouth. Usually at that point, the rose-tinted glasses were removed, revealing the truth that theater is just another industry competing to offer the finest product to the public.
I think the surprising factor, which shouldn’t have been so surprising, is how similar the root of these actors stories were and how honestly not much has actually changed, which is disappointing but reassuring to feel that, no, you are not being negative or selfish for wanting beyond your means when you get tired of seeing performative work of body inclusivity in the industry and other areas of media.
Basically, yes, you have to play the game because type casting and fat shaming is not going anywhere, but that is not the end all be all, and you truly have to go out there and be there for yourself. Theater takes a tough skin to be a part of, but we have to be tougher and better than most just to be looked at as equal and viable by those in charge of certain productions. Our bodies and looks are not our weaknesses but our strengths in this industry.
Not really. In my high school years, my teachers were dedicated to preparing teens for their pursuit of the arts, and reality wasn’t sugarcoated for us attending. Especially with the teachers we had. In college, I got fully exposed to how things run, and it still seems to align with how it is today. Same ways of operating, just with bigger budgets and venues. What was nice and encouraging to see was how confident the actors were in their choices at this moment in time. How in charge they were of what they wanted from life and how theater can still be a part of it rather than just being their life.
When it comes to the books I've written and want to publish in this series, I'd be content if they ended up in the hands of those who needed them the most at the moment of their discovery. I hope it might be a cathartic or affirming experience for the voices that contribute to my works as well as upcoming readers. I think it gives them comfort in knowing that the viewpoints and ideas they get while navigating the profession are important. Their journey is important, regardless of the level or prestige they may or may not hold within the industry.
I feel this is a universal application to all people who hold the power to cast a show that sticks to these ridiculous ideas of what is marketable to sell a show. Stop viewing all actors in a certain marginalized group as one monolith. Stop acting like an actor with a bigger body can’t be the love interest, romantic lead, or lead in general in a story that has nothing to do with the size of the character. Stop acting like it is too unrealistic to see fat people as more than the evil one, the one that is constantly eating, or the dumb one. Stop being performative with casting one or two fat actors and think that you really did something special there or that you are being inclusive. Stop projecting your biases about what you think an actor who is fat is capable of.
There are plenty of actors in the ensemble with "dancer bodies" that have two left feet that would need Modifications and plenty of bigger bodies that can keep up with the original choreography. If you can afford to give leniency because someone looks like they are capable, lead with that same energy for those who actually can do it. Stop hiding behind budgeting as an excuse for laziness or prejudice when casting. An example would be saying, Well, this person wouldn’t fit the costume. Like, why would the outfit be chosen before an actor even gets to audition? stop operating by the same old ways of theater that you most likely had to fight through in order to rise in this industry.
Currently, I have shifted my focus to my fiction work and my other passions outside of traditional theater to seek fulfillment and recharge my excitement to create again. I have had the opportunity to do an episode in a web series, be a part of an immersive theater event, and collaborate on other film projects. I do have another "Theater While..." that I am slowly working on that I do feel like pursuing within the next year.
Dhafir Photo Gallery
I never had a period of coming out; it was more of standing my ground and letting others know this is who I am and always have been, and that was not going to change. Growing up, I started getting physically abused before even turning one year old. As I grew, so did the ways I would receive abuse. It quickly progressed to being mentally and emotionally abused while still being physically abused. The "reasons" or targets for the continual growing abuse were because of two things: I was fat and I was gay, or at least not masculine enough. Oddly enough, my abuser was struggling with accepting her own sexuality, which was very clear even as a kid; that was always who she was.
Through a very low devastating circumstance in my life, I was able to escape my abuser but was put into another abusive environment. Not one out of intent to hurt, but one from an individual who was very set in their ways and a devoted born-again Christian. Microaggressions and disdain, mixed with physical actions, were what I had to manage during that time. Fast-forward to when it finally blew up and had to be confronted. There was a discussion about a friend I had at the time who was going through their own struggles with dealing with a religious family and being gay. I was told that their parents felt good about my friend hanging out with me because they liked that they had a more masculine friend around because they were clearly going through a phase at the moment.
My guardian at the time felt too comfortable and proud to tell me this because they remembered a time when I went through this "phase". Instinctively, I put my foot down, saying I am gay and always have been gay, and that wasn’t ever going to change. That led to me being forced on my knees to pray the demon out of me for close to 6 hours, or at least until it started getting lighter outside. non-stop screaming and wailing at me with a bible being waved over me and used to hit me to deny I was who I was. Lots of horrible words with, "You are the reason our family is going to burn in hell!" "You are delivering us all to hell in a hand-basket!" "You have a demon in you!" "You are demonic!" Eventually they were worn out, and so was I.
I ended up staying home because I was so exhausted and couldn’t really walk that much after not being allowed to get up for so long. The following months proceeded with me being shamed and neglected emotionally and with my health because I was a "demonic faggot" living in this "godly" home. My guardian felt that this was what I deserved. As the years passed, so did the views of the guardian. Though I still do not feel truly comfortable, I also can’t keep judging them. This is the reality for people who are raised with certain beliefs and never question there validity. I'm just glad there is hope for others to eventually change in a more progressively positive way and more outlets for those who still have to deal with severe fear when coming out as simply who they always were.
I define body positivity as having the ability to be comfortable loving your body at all stages of your life while having the same genuine respect for others with their bodies. I feel that it is important because I know my body, what I am able to do with it, and what it has been or is currently going through, while being very well aware that when others look at me, they cast judgment on me based on the societal stereotypes of what a person who is built like me is like. I don’t think we should still be weaponizing weight, build, and type when we know that sometimes situations with our bodies are unpredictable or inevitable. I know I am not an innocent party when it comes to this, and sometimes I can regress quickly to that mindset in low times. Life is already too much of a struggle, so let yourself and other people be able to hold onto some sense of security with the skin they are in.
Not only have I worked tirelessly to find acceptance for myself, but I still am and always will be searching for it. I feel the road for me has actually been a big ass track field, and within recent years I have finally completed the first lap. I say this because, at one point in time, as a kid, I truly didn’t care about my body being exposed. It wasn’t like I wasn’t aware that I was bigger; I was always the bigger kid no matter where I went, and I was always bullied for my size, but I didn’t carry shame with it. I feel I was more conscious to know that the bullying was about people trying to hurt my feelings and not words being valid about who I was because I happen to be this size. Then one day, something in my mind switched, and all of a sudden it felt like people were right and that I should be ashamed of how I look.
Lots of self-harm in a variety of ways came into play for roughly twenty years of my thirty years of living because of it. Lots of suffering in long, hot, ill-fitting clothes all year long to try to avoid judgment while subconsciously giving the visual picture to people of, Oh, he knows he is fat, ugly, worthless, etc., so we don’t need to remind him or put him in his place today. Then, with age and therapy, with the points of being mentally exhausted and over certain bullshit, I started to see myself the way I did as a kid, which was that I knew my body was this and that any negative things said about it had everything to do with the type of person that individual was and that taking the time and energy to say it had more to do with who they are and not who I am as a person.
I felt like there were a lot of people who I used to look up to before who ended up being examples of what I don't want to do or end up like. Especially those with hypocritical views on bigger bodies. Like the ones who preach loving all in all forms but actively doing the opposite in their everyday lives. I do wish I had a mentor of some sort as guidance, but I think the inspiration I get from certain friends and acquaintances (Fran Rodriguez, co-founder of Akellare Productions in Costa Rica; Jordan Waters, creator of The Art Of Killing It and many more; Mick Gloss, costume tech for The Bridgerton Experience; Joshua R. Pangborn, creator of Sidekick Productions; Jeffery Robertson, creator of the drag persona Varla Jean Merman; and Shaun T, International Fitness Mogul) of how they have truly built themselves up from the ground to make their dreams a reality, from career to daily lifestyle, is something I actively think about when things feel rough or impossible to do. I take what I observe and absorb from them to try to find my confidence in navigating my own path and creating my own space in this chubby world.
I do not think of any companies that truly reflect chubby or bigger bodies well yet. At least a place I can feel seen in and reflected in. I think the Closest Would actually be DXL Men's Warehouse. Which is the most popular but still feels very limiting. Some body-positive creators would be a few that I have worked with in this book. Joshua R. Pangborn of Sidekick Productions and Stephanie Lexis of the Broadway Body Positivity Project I think each has their own distinct way of doing their best to reflect all body sizes of all types of people in their work, and I sincerely appreciate it. Another that I can think of would not be a creator in the new traditional sense, but Harvey Guillen is someone who represents what actors with bigger bodies can do in a way that is not always just used for comedic effect, like his combative work and training for certain jobs, "What We Do in the Shadows" being the most current example of that.
The advice I would give to someone struggling with their body is to know that you are always going to have days of struggling with your body, so you need to learn what tools work best for you to manage your way through those days. Know that people’s words or attitudes towards your body are just that; they are their views, so it is their problem. Do not let their words have power over yours. It will happen, of course, where all the negativity that our minds have absorbed over the years from other people who had something to say about us will take over and try to put you down on those very low days, but that's why we have those management tools to try to pass through all that nonsense.
Okay, I do hope this falls under the category of superhero and is certainly not a cop out because this is a deep cut, but if you ever heard of a little show called Charmed, then I would like to have not Piper’s powers or Phoebe’s or Prue’s or Paige's, though with her white-lighter side it does make it cooler, but I am going to start the Halliwell line to get Melinda Warren's abilities because she had all of the powers. To relate it to a more popular example, I would want a Scarlet Witch type of gig minus the order of trauma and deep international, intergalactical, and multi-dimensional protective responsibilities that come with that life.
It’s okay to put yourself first when you have exhausted all your efforts to make those situations work, and that applies to any type of relationship you have. Any time with friends, family, romance, business, networking, creativity, et cetera, it’s not you leading with a negative view, but you choosing to gain back some positivity for yourself that you lost when your energy was being depleted.
I would say April 25th because it's not too hot or too, Oh, you said day, not date. Well, I think my perfect day would be waking up early in the morning and working on my writing, art, dancing, singing, or any other project I would like to do in the morning. Then I would go out for lunch to just spoil myself on something that I could most likely make myself at home, and then go to the movie theaters or catch a theater matinee. Then I would like to enjoy the rest of the day by reading a book, listening to a podcast I liked, or watching certain YouTube videos I liked for an hour or two. Then I would enjoy the rest of my evening bonding with my best friend or other close friends. Pool time, board games, and just chatting about what is on our minds and what we are feeling until we just relax and drift to sleep.
Janet Jackson, Johnny Sibilly, and I are attending a dinner party hosted by Fran Drescher. That would be my ideal dinner party to attend at the moment. I have other combos, but this one feels like a good vibe for me.
That I'm negative or pessimistic. I actually do try very hard to be positive and lead with positivity. I Hopefully cling to positivity way past the expiration date of certain situations. With my upbringing, I just see more of the reality of situations. So when someone may think I'm being a glass half empty type of person, I'm just making sure I view everything realistically so I don't let expectations get too high. I also feel that people think I don't care that much about certain things when I care a lot about almost everything. I can truly see the importance of everything, even when nothing is done. Sometimes to my detriment, but still valuable in other situations.
I think the politically correct answer would be, Nothing, because if I did change something, then I wouldn't be me." So besides my metabolism, here is what I would absolutely change about myself: I would change how much people and situations affect me. I am a very sensitive person, which I do believe is a wonderful quality to have, but I would like to not let everything impact me so deeply. Someone doesn't like me, okay? If someone doesn't appreciate what I can provide in a type of relationship or creative partnership, that's okay. If someone wants to put me down, okay. That is not my problem, and I shouldn’t let it have as much weight on me as if it were of any value. I have been better with that over the years, and though it still affects me, I just keep moving forward now.
Special thanks
I'm absolutely thrilled to express my heartfelt gratitude to Dhafir Jackson for generously taking the time to participate in this incredible interview! It's an extraordinary opportunity for me to delve deep into his captivating book, "Theater While Fat," explore his empowering body positivity journey, and uncover the fascinating insights into his professional life. Get ready for an upbeat and enlightening experience!
